Hi, so again, we are, we're back, and we're having, wonderful conversations here at the Zero Prostate Cancer kind of seminar in Atlanta, Georgia. And, yes, and as she said earlier, she does not have a prostate. So you don't have to have a prostate story, but this is Dr. Leanne Woods-Burnham, and she is at the Morehouse School of Medicine here in Atlanta, Georgia, one of the premier historically Black medical schools in the country. and you do a lot of research. Yeah. So tell, tell us about what you do at, Morehouse School of Medicine. Yes, and so, I came to Morehouse School of Medicine in 2022.

I realized that there was a great need, in the prostate space, particularly in Black men in Atlanta. It has the third worst rates in the nation for Black men. and so when I came, I really have a translational approach, where I wanted to approach it from the bench. Right. I'm a scientist- Right. - so in science, we say from the bench. So I have a team that where we look at reasons, genetic reasons why, molecular reasons why tumors from Black men are more aggressive, right? So we look at that. Okay. But then it doesn't mean anything to me at the bench if that doesn't translate to the community.

If men don't know they're at higher risk, and they're not- Right ... having access to screenings. So we formed PCP3, which stands for Prostate Cancer Precision Prevention program, and that's a team of, of about 50 people. Okay. Some were here tonight, and you may have got a chance to see them. Saw them, yes.

but we go throughout Georgia, really, and provide PSA testing at no cost for men. Because what we know is, unfortunately, a lot of Black men, when they go to their primary care physician, their doctor is not necessarily talking to them about screening. No. So then they're not getting screening, so that's a problem when you're talking about a disease that is almost 100% survival rate five years out if you detect it early. Yes. So we want to detect it early. So that's the second approach of my, the translational work I do. The final approach is, I'm very involved in the design of clinical trials- Okay ...

making sure that when we're looking at study design, when we're looking, at how drugs interact, with certain tumors, that we're keeping men who have West African genetic ancestry in mind. So we can- Right ... really approach medicine with a precision medicine approach. Right. So drugs are available that work for everybody, not just some populations. Mm-hmm. and so, on a side note, I don't talk about it all the time, but I actually, I had stage four blood cancer a decade ago. Oh, wow. And so I know what it's like to be a patient and staring your mortality in the face- ...

and being like, "What? I need to do something that works." And so I'm very passionate, you know, when I'm working with patients, and I'm designing clinical trials, I'm thinking about that patient. I'm thinking about the best drug for them and, and giving them really access to, like, a VIP experience- Right ... is how I describe it.

Well, I like that. you know, and I was, I was doing the earlier interviews, and I was sharing kind of, that fear that I have, you know, 'cause my father had prostate cancer- ... my grandfathers had prostate cancer. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so, and I'm Southern Black, and we didn't really talk about health history- ... until I got into this space, and then now I'm telling everybody in my family- Yeah ... "Let's talk about our health history. Let's- Yeah ... share." 'Cause I would go to the doctor's office, I wouldn't know. Yeah. And my mother had high blood pressure, and my father had high blood pressure.

But, like, it's, it's all this stuff, but we, they never really talked about it. They don't talk about it. And what's interesting, I was just thinking while you were talking, is there's an intertwining there. A lot of people don't know, if you have prostate cancer in your family, that means the women in your family are at much higher risk for breast cancer- Yes ... and vice versa. Yes. So it's important, if you don't know your family history on your dad's side, maybe you know your mom's side. If you don't know your mom, maybe you know your dad, but it's important to tie in, tie all of that in- Right ...

when you're thinking about your health. So I would tell people, I'd say, "When you go to the doctor's office, and they give you all those papers the first time, fill them out." Yeah. Right? Yeah. Fill them out, and then put them in a place where you know where they are- Yes ... because that, that, that is paramount.

My question for you is, what should men know? 'Cause we, we know the We hear this term PSA, and, and we, and, and many people don't know it stands for prostate-specific antigen, which is, I had to learn that. But what else should they know about prostate cancer? They should definitely know that the overwhelming majority of men don't have any symptoms initially. Okay. That's so important to know because a lot of times we know, you know, I am a daughter, I'm a wife- ... I'm a mom, so you have to doggone near have 104 fever before you wanna go to the doctor, right? Right, right.

Yeah. So it's important to know, you might not have any symptoms. you probably won't have any symptoms- Right ... if you have early-stage prostate cancer. So the blood test that you do once a year after age 40 is what I recommend for Black men. Right. and, and not just, that's not just out of thin air, right? Prostate Cancer Foundation recommends that, American Cancer Society, and so, and other organizations as well. So you wanna get screened because you're probably not gonna have symptoms in an early stage. what else I would like men to know, Black men to know, is that they're at higher risk.

Maybe they don't know. Right. So definitely so you know that you are at higher risk. It is very highly treatable if you catch it early. if it's in a later stage or you're, you know, you are to the point where you've had a biopsy, and you know, "I have different treatment options," it's also important to know that there's a lot of different treatment options- Mm-hmm ...

that you have to decide between you and your doctor. But the survival rate is pretty similar, and the symptoms, the side effects are pretty similar. Okay. So whether you decide to do surgery, whether you decide to do radiation, the side effects are pretty similar. So I really recommend for, I know men like to be strong and keep it to themselves, but- ... if you can find other men, even if it's online- Yeah ... so Zero Prostate Cancer has online support groups. You can even find an online support group. Talk to, I highly recommend talk to men who've been there, done that, and then you can see how they went through their process and to, to really make a decision for what you wanna do for yourself.

Yeah, you know, it's, uh- sitting here and I'm like, "Everything you're saying sounds really great." But there is that internal fear as just knowing, then you know the family history makes it even more pronounced, or it might go from, like, one in eight for white men, and then I hear the numbers one in six for Black men. Mm-hmm. I might be one in four- Yeah ... because of the family history. Yeah. there, there is that fear, but I think that what I have found to be the kind of the most, transformational- Mm-hmm ... is sharing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? 'Cause there was a lot of time I wouldn't even tell anybody- Yes ...

that I had a family history. Yes. Not even my doctor. Yes. but sharing that makes people say, "Oh, have you got your prostate checked?" And you get that village, the building that village- Mm-hmm ...

that helps you in that space. Mm-hmm. it, it goes a long way. So I did hear this from one of the interviews I did. Mm-hmm. shout out to Dr. Mack Roach. Um- Yes! One of the things we, we talked about was that space between an elevated PSA- Mm-hmm ... and the biopsy. Mm-hmm. And there is an opportunity to maybe get an MRI to get the full imaging- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... of the prostate versus the snippets. Yes. So is that something that you would recommend for men to maybe ask for if they have the opportunity to do that, or? Yeah, for sure. this is where it gets tricky because there's also studies that show that Black men are not offered the MRI at rates- There you go ...

as other men. Okay. So the first thing is finding a clinic who even has that option available. If we're talking about men who are in rural settings, they don't even necessarily have that readily available. But if you, if it is a location where you can go and your doctor is offering that, I do highly recommend that. but I will say here in Atlanta, the in- the major institutions, the major clinics that are here, we It is offered. Right. So- Beautiful ... if you're in a metro area, you know, there, there is that opportunity. Yeah, and just for, for our audiences, like, the MRI, of course, is that, it gives a full kind of view of the prostate, and you can see where there's potential lumps.

Whereas a biopsy, they take snippets of cells, and this is for you- you, you correct me when I'm wrong, but- ... they take snippets of cells and see if, if they're, they're cancerous.

Mm-hmm. And so they'll be able to see through the MI- MRI if there's lumps in areas where they didn't get the biopsy. Then that'll drive the your, your urologist saying, "Hey, we might need to go and get a biopsy to see," 'cause there might be lumps, but they're non-cancerous. Correct. It might be enlarged- Enlarged ... but it's not cancerous. Right. All of those things. So you do A biopsy is gonna happen. Mm-hmm. Just telling y'all, a biopsy is gonna happen at some point, but you have that one step between elevated PSA and then- And the biopsy should not be traumatic, okay?

So my dad, he's had prostate cancer for 15 years. He first had elevated PSA and had a biopsy without any anesthesia, and he told himself he was not doing that again. Oh. So another seven years passed before he even decided to go to the doctor and, and do anything about it, and by that time, his PSA was 64. Oh, wow. Now, a normal PSA is, anything that is less than four for the general population. We say less than 2.5 for Black men. Oh, wow. Okay. His was 64, so you It was crazy. but what I learned is, in, in the year since then, 'cause I was really new to the field at that time, but biopsy should not You, you should have some sort of pain management.

Yes. So if your doctor is not offering that- Yeah ... find somebody different. Yeah, I would say a biopsy without anesthesia? Woo. Yeah. Okay. I can't imagine that. So there's That, that 2.5 is the first time I've heard that. Yeah. I've always heard the four in terms of- Yeah, American Cancer Society says 2.5, and on the research side of things, studies that we have published in the past, we see that Black men who have a PSA of 1.5- Mm-hmm ...

but have a higher proportion of West African genetic ancestry, that's predictive of them having prostate cancer in the, within the next decade. Oh, wow. So but that's, that's our, our science fun that we do. Yeah. That's not a, a- That's what we're talking about ... sweeping, you know, recommendation. Right. But American Cancer Society does, does say 2.5 for Black men. Oh, wow. Okay, that's good to know. Mm-hmm. My last one was 0.4. Yes. Just, yeah. So I'm, I'm good, but yet I, I think that is important for people to know. 'Cause I think a lot of times that information from reliable, trusted sources is so important, it, particularly in today's times- Yeah ...

that men need to hear it from these sources. They need to hear it from, like, the panelists- Mm-hmm ... that you're on the panel with tonight, hear it from people that they look up to, that they respect, and saying, "Hey, this is- Yeah ... really what it is," versus Dr. Google. Yeah. Because you can get into trouble with Dr. Google. All sorts of trouble. I do it myself. I mean, I'm a victim of that, too. And now AI and Dr. Google- Yeah ... have become friends, and so it, they give you summaries of everything, so it really, it really I think it's a good starting point. I'm, I don't wanna say, you know, anything bad about- Yeah ...

Google. It's a great starting point, but there's nothing that's gonna beat having a conversation with the, your medical provider. Yes, yes. And if they're not bringing it up, you bring it up, and that's why we want people to be educated- Mm-hmm ...

so when they walk into their doctor's office, even if they don't bring it up, you say, "Doc, what was my PSA?" Yeah. For sure. Oh, and now you know that 2.5 number for, for Black men. That might be something that can save a life or get that early detection, which will be, beneficial down the road. For sure. So if there's one thing that has been the biggest challenge for you in your career, what is that, then? Ooh! primary care physicians not talking about it with their patients. Okay. So I would say that that is it, a- or a- and that's, as a wife, if I'm at the doctor with my husband- that's if I'm working with a clinic to try to better inform their screening guidelines, and then there's pushback from some physicians who are like, "Why are we doing this?

The US Preventative Services Task Force doesn't say to screen in the 40s." Right. So that's a whole, that's a whole situation. So I would say that's probably been the most frustrating. Frustrating, right. Oh, yeah, I started getting screened at 35, and I remember when I had that conversation with my doctor, he was like, "What are you doing?" And then I explained to him the family history, and he goes, "Oh, okay." Yeah. "That, that's probably a good thing." And then, not only did we get the screening, he, he did the, the digital rectal- Yes. ... exam. Yes. So when you made the comment about the long fingers- Yes ...

I know exactly what you're talking about. You knew what you were talking about. So it's not fun. Just for the record, it's not fun, but it doesn't last very long.

Yes. And it, you know, and so, yeah, I've been through it all. seen it a, a lot, but I, I just wanna thank you for the work that you're doing- Thank you ... and continue. So how, you know, how do people get involved in, in your work? How do they- Yeah ... support you and your team of 50 plus? Yes. So, yeah, if you're interested in finding out more, you know, I, I do, work for Morehouse School of Medicine. I'm also on the medical advisory board for Zero Prostate Cancer. Okay. And so this Blitz The Barriers initiative, is Zero partnering with a lot of different institutions.

Morehouse School of Medicine is just one. Right. but really, I would tap into what Zero's doing and seeing what's coming at a city near you. We're starting off in Atlanta and Baltimore this first year, this first phase, but then there'll be, other phases rolling out in the next few years. So, yeah, just pay attention to what's going on in terms of that, following Zero, following Morehouse School of Medicine, and we always have something up our sleeve. Yes. Yes. So Zero Prostate Cancer, wonderful organization. We've gotta get a handle on this. It is one of the most, if not the most, treatable cancers, out there, but we have to know.

And the way you know is by getting tested. So we'll start with getting tested, and then work with wonderful doctors like this to get you through that whole process, so- Thank you. Thank you for your time, and- Thank you so much ... and we appreciate you joining us here today. Thank you so much.